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ZlasoPoblima1907's avatar

1. What is the "anti-Christian" charity exactly? I haven't been able to identify it in the list.

2. In all nations, everywhere, the advancements of modernity (better education, healthcare, lower rate of child death, increases in longevity) have universally translated to lower fertility. This is true in Africa as well: fertility, while high, is decreasing basically everywhere. EA charities which help with Africa's development in this manner are thus leading to a long-term decrease in the number of African people. While there will be a temporary increase (those who would have otherwise died do not), the new general conditions come about quicker and decrease fertility sooner. Saying that these charities "create" africans is wrong.

3. No EA I have seen is a simple hedonic utilitarian. They care about all of the higher spects of living you care about - they all fall under "well-being" and the ability of humans to pursue higher goals. It just so happens that it is much harder to be beautiful, strong, virtuous and faithful when you are malnourished, diseased, or dead. These are the obvious first things to fix, to bring humans who need it on a better baseline from which they can follow other pursuits (or even if they do not - while not dignified, a person who feels base pleasures at a consistent rate is better than someone miserable or dead, if they do not cause harm). Also, only a few select monks and mystics are beyond pleasure and pain - you are not, I am not, an overwhelming majority of us are not. And that is fine - we can enjoy life and try not to suffer from it (EDIT: while still striving for more meaningful aspects of life, which give us pleasure. You seem to use the word "pleasure" to strictly refer to hedonic enjoynment, and not aesthetic appreciation or religious belonging or the satisfaction of doing something meaningful for humanity and the world etc. All of these fall under "pleasure", and because you do not properly define a lot of terms I do not know if I am correct or not in my interpretation.) If we have a basis for this, we will still have those monks and mystics to serve as examples and paragons. Taking forced misery out of the world will not change that.

4. Shrimps have different, more complex nervous systems than worms. There are stronger indicators of them being in pain than worms. This is not an arbitrary distinction (EDIT: I have found a detailed, multi-blog post discussions about the very topic of what constitutes pain in animals, how it can be recognized, what features of nervous systems indicate pain etc., in invertebrates less complex than shrimp: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/sHWwN8XydhXyAnxFs - point is, EAs as a collective think deeply and scrupulously about this stuff, and would give you answers were you to bother checking or asking them). Furthermore, a worm causes infinitely more pain to a human than a shrimp can do. Even if the worm was similar in its experience of qualia, the harm it would do to humans would likely outweigh its own pain. You treat EA arguments with incredible facility, and have not asked them any of your (fair) questions - you just assume their answers are obviously wrong and stupid.

5. Lower IQ people do still have empathy (lesser than high IQ people, true). Everyone, to a large extent, wants factory farming because it is a cheap source of good food, and a higher percentage of geniuses will only partially alleviate that. Most reasons for opposing veganism that are not rational/philosophical (gut reactions, basically) happen across the board: scope insensitivity, being scared of being confronted with the possibility of having done great harm, easiness etc. Also, the work low-IQ people do, which you gloss over, is the reason economies of scale and all their wonders you enjoy can exist, and also why you have food to eat and heat to not die of cold (besides the research and ingenuity of high IQ people, of course). There is a point where you cannot automate everyone out of existence.

6. You dismiss all concerns of alignment people out of hand: the fact that their arguments can work without sci-fi grey goo (which only really Eliezer cares about anymore), the fact that current LLM trajectories do change forecasts and timelines, that we cannot tell currently if this peak/dip is truly the beginning of a new winter, that alignment concerns are more general beyond LLMs and that it is better to be prepared in all cases etc. Also, using terms like "Messiah" and "faith" is very strange since alignment people do not want AGI to happen as it is now, as they believe it will be misaligned and cause chaos. They are not waiting for it - many would be extremely relieved at a new winter and a longer timeline.

7. If AI will produce "a bit of research humans cannot understand", then it has basically hit human intelligence, and if it has hit human intelligence, there are essentially only computational barriers for it to become super-intelligent. You seem to think this is a large gap - do you have a specific reason for this? Most discussion (which I agree with) argues the opposite.

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Rainbow Roxy's avatar

Regarding the funding analysis presented, I wonder how the ethnic categorisations truly serve an equitible distribution goal. It reminds me of balancing biases in AI datasets, a complex undertaking.

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